tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post3951967392575004989..comments2023-10-20T08:27:40.314-04:00Comments on male pattern boldness: Further dealings with fit + YOUR favorite fit resources!Peter Lappinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05109154527996679077noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-72679749120578620562011-01-30T09:54:39.210-05:002011-01-30T09:54:39.210-05:00My favorite fitting book is "Fitting & Pa...My favorite fitting book is "Fitting & Pattern Alteration: A Multi-Method Approach"..it covers all of the various methods, which is really useful. The illustrations are clear and easy to understand and even though they show womens styles the same principals apply to mens clothes. Every type of garment and fitting issue is addressed. It's on Amazon and its pricey for a paperback (I think because it's a textbook) but its very very comprehensive:<br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/Fitting-Pattern-Alteration-Multi-Method-Approach/dp/0870057758/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1296398800&sr=1-1Phyllishttp://coudremode.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-9076898670333894012011-01-28T05:59:19.071-05:002011-01-28T05:59:19.071-05:00Thanks for all these super detailed shirt posts Pe...Thanks for all these super detailed shirt posts Peter I've really enjoyed reading them!<br /><br />When making my husband a shirt recently I was stuck for resources & ended up using/adapting the information in FFRP as best I could. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out in the end.<br /><br />My husband is fairly skinny & has quite a narrow waist. For the last couple of shirts I made him I just tapered the side seams down to the next size down. These shirts are still relatively loose on him (compared with those he normally wears) but don't look oversized. However as per everyone's comments here to go any further down the fitted path, I'd probably be looking to adding back darts rather than taking more out of the side seams. <br /><br />Having said all of that, to add back darts you'd probably need to eliminate any pleats under the yoke right? I'm really not sure how that would impact the ease of the shirt & if that would lead to further issues. Maybe someone else out there knows the answer to this??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-87509170564148520802011-01-28T00:09:46.452-05:002011-01-28T00:09:46.452-05:00Not the best examples, but still entertaining. Rea...Not the best examples, but still entertaining. Read the comments too.<br /><br /><a href="http://thesartorialist.blogspot.com/2010/08/italian-fit-try-back-dart.html" rel="nofollow">The Sartorialist on men's back darts</a>Debbie Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03601675304884019607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-46539846344304842642011-01-27T19:47:45.522-05:002011-01-27T19:47:45.522-05:00Peter, it's hard to tell from your picture, bu...Peter, it's hard to tell from your picture, but it appears that your back piece was cut with a straight seam, judging from the fact that all the pin stripes are perpendicular to the yoke. If you don't mind some asymmetry there, consider trying some curvature in the back piece seam. This will reduce the two large vertical folds along the sides. If doing so removes too much ease in the upper back, you can add a box pleat, or two pleats at the shoulders.DAvidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-14976830390454050102011-01-27T19:29:57.741-05:002011-01-27T19:29:57.741-05:00Onda, my duct tape dress firm is my BFF when it co...Onda, my duct tape dress firm is my BFF when it comes to fitting. After I made slopers from her, my brain is on auto pilot when it comes to personal fitting.<br /><br />A dress form and slopers are the best, most accurate, and easiest thing Ive ever done to fit myself.Shelleyjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05223944949880318245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-4432573926592384182011-01-27T19:25:42.538-05:002011-01-27T19:25:42.538-05:00I'm with Debbie.
I think Coffin is a little ...I'm with Debbie. <br /><br />I think Coffin is a little off target when it comes to "back darts=ill cut side seams." The most fitted mens garments have darts whether it be front or back. Think of tailored vests and the darts in tailored jackets whether they be sewn darts or translated into a seam. <br /><br />Just the simple anatomy of the spine shows a curvature so once translated to clothing how should you fit it? A dart of course. <br /><br />If I'm remembering correctly, Coffin is no pattern making genius. He's more skilled on the detailing of construction that many other books overlook. I would definitely take the advice of FFRP over Coffin when it comes to fit. It almost seems as if Coffin thinks of the body as a 2D form rather than a 3d form. Curved side seams will only take the fit in a certain amount fitting the side curve but doing nothing for the curve of the spine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-78194682495128222632011-01-27T18:59:32.111-05:002011-01-27T18:59:32.111-05:00And now for the pat down...And now for the pat down...Peter Lappinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05109154527996679077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-20236674429899973592011-01-27T18:57:53.016-05:002011-01-27T18:57:53.016-05:00Duane, I afraid that, as a result of your having s...Duane, I afraid that, as a result of your having started before February 1, I must disqualify you from the Sew-Along.<br /><br />Please put you pattern down and hand over all shirt-related fabric. Your buttons will be confiscated. Anything you say in your defense will be held against you in a court of law.Peter Lappinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05109154527996679077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-71493594813342938642011-01-27T18:35:46.879-05:002011-01-27T18:35:46.879-05:00I think I'm with Willy and hiding under a blan...I think I'm with Willy and hiding under a blanket with this fitting discussion. I really don't have too many requests where a shirt is concerned. I want the neck to be comfortable when buttoned, long enough to keep tucked in and sleeves the right length. I have no interest in anything resembling yesterday's red and white striped number. Ugh! Today I redrafted my pattern's back for a center box pleat and made a pattern for french cuffs a la DPC's book. Can't wait for the official start!Mainelydadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05718855427399616514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-79935011683048559502011-01-27T16:35:13.758-05:002011-01-27T16:35:13.758-05:00Peter - Good advise already posted here, so nothin...Peter - Good advise already posted here, so nothing to add. However, the Roberto Cabrera/ Patricia Flaherty Myers book "Classic Tailoring Techniques" <br />http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Tailoring-Techniques-Construction-Collection/dp/0870054317/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296163939&sr=1-1<br />doesn't deal with shirts, but if you can find this book and give it a quick browse, you may want to add it to your resources stash. It has some basic fit/pattern alterations for tailored jackets & pants. I bought my copy after it was discussed on a sewing "list."<br />HTHDoris W. in TNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00510857815095094456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-39984014705441325142011-01-27T15:08:09.406-05:002011-01-27T15:08:09.406-05:00I have FFRP and I do love it as a good fitting res...I have FFRP and I do love it as a good fitting resource. Though, I'll admit, the tissue fitting method has never worked for me. I'm a muslin person. That's that. <br /><br />My first book on fitting was Adele Margolis' book "How to Make Clothes that Fit and Flatter." Geared towards womens fit, though I do so love that book. Ms. Margolis' wit is superb and I always find myself consulting that book first before any other as I've found that it's solutions are geared towards the home seamstress. It also fixes problems from the point of view of a muslin as opposed to just the tissue fitting method. Still both books have great and somewhat different ideas on fit. <br /><br />Overfitting? Who ever heard of such a thing?Sunnihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16380215145775412897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-87815598167153226342011-01-27T14:58:00.209-05:002011-01-27T14:58:00.209-05:00Peter, I've never sewn a shirt for a man and p...Peter, I've never sewn a shirt for a man and probably I never will, but on RTW shirts my husband often finds that issue with some of them and prefers the ones that are "fitted". Perhaps, you should take a trip to some store and try on one of those "fitted" shirts to compare with yours and take a look at how they are made? Would that help?Gabihttp://jackfamily.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-11110845256487897622011-01-27T14:10:46.552-05:002011-01-27T14:10:46.552-05:00I'm following this adventure with much interes...I'm following this adventure with much interest since I really should sew The Hubby a dress shirt. Nothing fits him quite right, and I don't blame the clothes! <br /><br />The yokes on his dress shirts strain to fit, and they're 18" across. He certainly has the shoulders of a football player. But then he has a 29" waist, so the shirt just hangs. To imagine it better he is 5'8" and 125 lbs.<br /><br />So, please please please figure out this whole "men's fit" thing. Pretty please? I'm thinking the only way I can take care of this IS with darts or a princess seam.Kristahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06964580963048511157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-34958205808521348382011-01-27T13:08:45.565-05:002011-01-27T13:08:45.565-05:00There is usually a hidden dart in the shoulder reg...There is usually a hidden dart in the shoulder region on a shirt. It is enclosed in the back yoke seam towards the outer edge, and shapes the shirt over your back shoulder - just like a shoulder dart coming from the neck, but it is coming from the armhole. Being aware of this may help in fitting the upper back.<br />I prefer the fit of my husbands shirts that have back waist darts - they are only 6mm darts, reducing a total of 1" across the back waist, but make all the difference. The side seams taper to the waist and then are straight to the hem.Sheryllhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17460472835794108787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-35417022378402184862011-01-27T12:26:41.455-05:002011-01-27T12:26:41.455-05:00Pivoting how? So that the lower edge of the patter...Pivoting how? So that the lower edge of the pattern is past the fold of the fabric? But then it might not fit over the hips. <br /><br />When you get your FFRP, look at their solution for a swayback alteration for cutting on the fold. I know I zapped this alteration in a previous comment, but that was for using it for the wrong problem. Here, it would shape the CB seam somewhat w/o using a dart or sewn seam. Still not as good as an actual dart, though. <br /><br />I think it really just comes down to preference. I was looking at Michael's Liberty shirt pics again and noticed you actually did sew the darts and they are invisible in the final shirt. In a solid fabric, they wouldn't be. Would that matter to you? If it does, consider leaving them out of solids but keeping them in prints where they aren't noticeable. Every shirt doesn't have to be the same and this is where the slippery slope begins. Viva la difference! ;-)Debbie Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03601675304884019607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-7666424678523800052011-01-27T12:04:46.686-05:002011-01-27T12:04:46.686-05:00Debbie, you're right. As far as draping the b...Debbie, you're right. As far as draping the back, Michael was doing it and yes, I think he accurately traced the edge onto the fabric. Any difference (remember how narrow that yoke is) would be minimal since the yoke fits the span of my shoulders.<br /><br />How about the idea of just pivoting the back pattern piece in a bit (say, 1/2") and tracing?Peter Lappinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05109154527996679077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-19996849975890905142011-01-27T11:57:38.151-05:002011-01-27T11:57:38.151-05:00Still reading. ;-)
Peter: "Re Coffin and dar...Still reading. ;-)<br /><br />Peter: "Re Coffin and darts, he was referring to back darts and men's shirts." <br /><br />Understood. But what we commenters were saying is that most backs are not straight up and down. They curve inward at the waist and outward at the tush. Shaping the sideseam will not fully allow for that valley because the side torso is not where the valley is located. <br /><br />I also think DPC is talking about classic/basic shirts that will be tucked in and usually worn with a tie and under a jacket, and he has sprinkled the commentary with own personal preferences (See "tirade" and "the traditional and tasteful shirt back is simple, functional and otherwise unadorned" (pg 21)). Styles change and there are now plenty of men who wear their UNtraditional shirts untucked and w/o tie and jacket, and/or who want a more body conscious fit. Darts, princess seams (really just darts that are shaped seams) or a CB seam is the only way to pull the fabric in where the body is concave. <br /><br />Not my own tirade. Just a different opinion.Debbie Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03601675304884019607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-86265844736820043392011-01-27T11:40:38.927-05:002011-01-27T11:40:38.927-05:00I'm an FFRP fanatic. It revolutionized my sewi...I'm an FFRP fanatic. It revolutionized my sewing and I LOVE not having to make muslins, which (to me) are money-wasters. I DO pin fit the pattern and have no problem doing it all by myself. I highly recommend it!Darcihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02936847220360997738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-25752684027056075932011-01-27T11:17:22.812-05:002011-01-27T11:17:22.812-05:00I'm reading the fitting parts of the DPC book ...I'm reading the fitting parts of the DPC book now. I don't think you should've ended up with the same back piece by draping vs. cutting from the pattern. Did you do the step of lifting the corner of the fabric to the yoke edge (Step 6, 2nd para)? That will give you a custom fitted shoulder slope. Well, I suppose you could end up with exactly the same shape as the pattern if your shoulder slope matches the pattern, in which case use that pattern ALL the time.Debbie Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03601675304884019607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-12380546363838989302011-01-27T11:04:06.628-05:002011-01-27T11:04:06.628-05:00I'm another fan of FFRP as well as fast fit. I...I'm another fan of FFRP as well as fast fit. I will admit that a lot of my fit issues have been resolved by both those books and trial and error. I'm a fairly intuitive sewist when it comes to fitting my body or my DD's (since that's who I mostly sew for), still those books are great resources as it comparison to other well-fitting garments you already have.Sandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04890008405738438915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-3834235359209750792011-01-27T10:55:17.534-05:002011-01-27T10:55:17.534-05:00I've seen some of my fellow beginner sewers ge...I've seen some of my fellow beginner sewers get very frustrated with the initial fit of the Colette Crepe bodice, during Gertie's sew-along. It freaked me out -- some folks have pumped out 3+ muslins for a pattern described as "beginner". There will inherently be a wrinkle issue around the arm area, because the sleeve and the bodice are all cut onto the same pieces, but there's been a lot of folks working really hard to eliminate the wrinkles, then bust adjustments, tucks, dart maneuvering/shortening, etc. Very overwhelming! Mercifully, my first muslin wasn't too bad. I've been slow to work on my second muslin because my frugal landlord has been providing paltry heat during a very cold NYC winter, and I don't feel like sewing when my feet are ice cubes. :( I'm kinda lazy (and cold!), so I don't think I'll be overfitting anytime soon.Catherinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-67577856676493241982011-01-27T10:51:25.293-05:002011-01-27T10:51:25.293-05:00Hi, guys. My morning has eased up a bit, thankful...Hi, guys. My morning has eased up a bit, thankfully. Re Coffin and darts, he was referring to back darts and men's shirts. Obviously a woman with a prominent bust will need darts if she wants her shirt to fit her curves, though some women may not. <br /><br />Thanks for the great recommendations. I eagerly await the arrival of FFRP. <br /><br />Debbie, I didn't forget about the 5/8" seam allowances on the Negroni but I think the width of that yoke alone warrants a "whoa." ;)Peter Lappinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05109154527996679077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-51605076333209944092011-01-27T10:12:11.182-05:002011-01-27T10:12:11.182-05:00I rely on Fit for Real People and Pants for Real P...I rely on Fit for Real People and Pants for Real People and have found them useful, but the tissue-fitting really is a pain if you're working by yourself. And you're right - there isn't much info on fitting for men in it. <br /><br />And I have another book called "Fitting and Pattern Alteration." It is a huge book with very good illustrations showing fitting analysis of myriad issues, including some that I would never have thought of (flat shoulder blades! prominent collar bone! flaring lower ribs! Yikes!). Then it gives the pattern fixes using different methods (slash or pivot). But you know what? I find it a little overwhelming. And clinical. I use "F&P Alteration" to try and figure out my problem and then go back to FFRP to see what they have to say, in their much friendlier, accessible way.<br /><br />I have the Coffin book and have looked at the yoke draping instructions. Will have to give it a try this week.pterionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12459353247583310216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-69492636796762658732011-01-27T09:42:44.006-05:002011-01-27T09:42:44.006-05:00For someone who can't seem to fit herself well...For someone who can't seem to fit herself well no matter what she does, this discussion is wonderful. I like hearing what you guys are doing. Thanks Peter for doing this. And one day I'll make a shirt for my DH who is also hard to fit? Sometimes a wonder who these patterns are cut for?sulymohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07887228971839188556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-73952602125342328182011-01-27T09:22:40.696-05:002011-01-27T09:22:40.696-05:00I usually have to grade patterns up AND do an FBA,...I usually have to grade patterns up AND do an FBA, so my normal method is to tissue fit, muslin #1 (the first one is usually awful, and just fits around me, nothing more fancy!), then another muslin or two for fine tuning. I don't find tissue fitting super helpful apart from figuring out is something is going to fit AROUND you or be the right length - you know, for those Simplicity patterns with 10 inches of ease built in, or the indie designers whose slopers I'm not familiar with (anyone jump in with the correct grammar here!)<br /><br />I find info on fitting/sewing for men SUPER hard to come by! And not to put on the pressure or anything... but when doing projects for my man, this blog has been a first stop! I think you and Dan are close to the same size/build, so I just copy your projects! He doesn't get why I keep making him jumpsuits and burda tunics, but he trusts me...<br /><br />As for fitting books - everyone's mentioned the go-to books I use. I usually use Fit For RP for above the belt and Nancy Z's pivot and slide book (the confidence one?) for trousers... I have the Fit For Real People trouser book, but I didn't find it super-helpful, I can't really remember why! I also have the Creative Publishing "The Perfect Fit" book that's a good one to flip through - I honestly use Fit For RP the most, though. Oh! AND - Kenneth King articles in any Threads magazine - not only are the specific techniques great, but there's something about the way he goes through the process that makes it easy to apply the techniques to different fitting issues.[patty the snug bug]https://www.blogger.com/profile/17830791771911214780noreply@blogger.com