tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post9067532119137374187..comments2023-10-20T08:27:40.314-04:00Comments on male pattern boldness: What is it with gay men and women's fashion?Peter Lappinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05109154527996679077noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-64149223401121774752015-01-05T13:55:47.059-05:002015-01-05T13:55:47.059-05:00Oh, please do not assume that because Charles Wort...Oh, please do not assume that because Charles Worth was married and had children that he was straight. I will leave this topic at that. I would doubt he was straight, but we don't have any evidence as to either way. Fred Fnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-26162008397026304402015-01-05T13:39:44.433-05:002015-01-05T13:39:44.433-05:00Sorry, have to correct this post: De la Renta was ...Sorry, have to correct this post: De la Renta was gay, even though he was married. This is common knowledge in the fashion industry. <br />Cavalli may be straight, but is not what I call a fashion designer. His collections demonstrate a narrow range of perception/viewpoint of women. He lacks the creative side of pushing boundaries, of what clothing means, of what the image of a woman means beyond a sexual object. As per my previous post, he offers another example of why gay men dominate as arbiters of fashion. Fred Fnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-37097422815057534832015-01-05T13:19:57.880-05:002015-01-05T13:19:57.880-05:00Oh, Henry, further I wanted to state that I do agr...Oh, Henry, further I wanted to state that I do agree to a good extent that men are behind the business side of fashion. That does add to the success, certainly. But we are talking about arbiters of fashion -- the creative side. And that is where gay men fully dominate. And without the creative component, it isn't fashion. You may have a business in the fashion industry, but that in no way necessarily means you are creating fashion. I'll use Ralph Lauren as an example again here. Fred Fnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-79936200898471616812015-01-05T13:11:39.753-05:002015-01-05T13:11:39.753-05:00Hello. I had to respond to this one. It is NOT jus...Hello. I had to respond to this one. It is NOT just men telling women what to wear. It IS gay men who are arbiters of fashion. I will drop my 2 cents on this later perhaps. There is a sensibility and awareness that gay men have that straight men just do not. I think a lot of it is from the fact that as a gay man, you are the object of attention as well as the one giving attention. So as a gay man, your looks are very, very important to your finding a mate. Every gay man knows this. And whereas women tend to judge men based on factors beyond looks (money, humor, personality), a man goes for the physical, even when it is for the same gender. So the art of packaging yourself is something gay men are very attuned to. <br /><br />As evidence, Henry, name one male fashion designer who isn't gay. I worked as a fashion designer for years and am still very attentive to this industry and I can tell you: there isn't one. <br />Oh, and don't tell me Ralph Lauren because that only supports my argument! Fred Fnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-5319670795494337352012-12-22T00:48:21.146-05:002012-12-22T00:48:21.146-05:00I have wondered this same thing, and I can only im...I have wondered this same thing, and I can only imagine it's because men feel confined by the form of men's clothing. However, I once saw a gorgeous Ralph Rucci shirt for men that was was like wearing a sexy piece of art--because it was! it was based off of a painting he had created and had the design woven into fabric. I would love to wear clothing like that, *IF* I could find it, let alone dare to afford it (which I never could). I have been getting ever more picky with the fugly mens' clothing sold in Target, K-Mart, Wal-Mart, etc. because I cannot afford to shop elsewhere. Well, save for Kohl's which has no changing rooms so the guys that shop there (locally) are all buff and change in the isles making me VERY self-conscious, so I don't shop there.Wade@MacMorrighan.Netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-44691769170163470672012-08-15T18:14:48.539-04:002012-08-15T18:14:48.539-04:00I know this comment is way late but I think it...I know this comment is way late but I think it's very simple. When I was a little girl I loved dressing my Barbie doll. I got this exquisite sense of satisfaction seeing her all dressed up in her finery. There was something very stimulating and creative about it. I got a huge thrill over seeing it all come together. I loved shopping for new doll clothes and loved the satisfaction I got the first time I took out the new outfit. I would run my hands over the fabric and marvel at how they were made. It was the greatest thing ever. I think that women are a gay man's Barbie. There is something that is beautiful and sensually artistic about a woman's curves - I think gay men admire this the way a car lover would admire a sleek sports car. Maybe some gay men are better at designing clothes because in a way sex is out of the picture - it's more about artistry and the elegance of the design. Perhaps there is more thought of creativity and symmetry rather than just showcasing 'tits and ass'. I think that to them the 'feminine' is seen as a type of beauty to celebrate and revel in. It's a compliment - we are admired by our gay friends in a way that we may never be by our boyfriends and husbands. The clothes gay men design are a homage. Kristelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-58892067745788380942012-08-11T13:56:08.754-04:002012-08-11T13:56:08.754-04:00i agree with sewsy that gay men may simply be proj...i agree with sewsy that gay men may simply be projecting their desires by designing for women. Because if gay men were so bored with men's clothing, they probably would have changed that by making men's clothes more exuberant. However, still because men's clothing choices tend to be safe, marketing such novel styles would be more difficult. Thus, designing for women allowed them creative freedom and helped them grow their business as well.weynhttp://woweyn.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-67590607730528318752012-08-08T08:00:10.450-04:002012-08-08T08:00:10.450-04:00What is it with gay women and men's fashion? ;...What is it with gay women and men's fashion? ;)Rosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13387981744147750166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-43540049707431099822012-08-07T16:45:11.349-04:002012-08-07T16:45:11.349-04:00I have nothing sensible to add to the comments on ...I have nothing sensible to add to the comments on the original question. But I will say I wish I knew other lesbians or bi women who are into sewing clothes. I can't be the only one!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-11150784288155275172012-08-07T14:19:55.293-04:002012-08-07T14:19:55.293-04:00What an interesting question.
I've glanced at...What an interesting question.<br /><br />I've glanced at some posts, read through others; and Rebecca, yours is the only one with which I'm prepared to take issue.<br /><br />I'm not sure that it matters whether or not anyone has "systematically proven" whether or not there are a disproportionate number of gay men in fashion. That wasn't really the question, was it?<br /><br />The question was "why are gay men the arbiters of women's fashion"? So, first, there's a presupposition that the question is a correct assesment...that gay men are indeed the arbiters of women's fashion. <br /><br />So, are they? I'd say an emphatic and positive...YES, they are.<br /><br />And why is this so? Well...for one thing, for whatever nature/nurture has molded them into...a lot of gay men have absolutely FABULOUS taste. They just do. And not just in women's clothing, although I've never questioned the "why" of it. I'm just glad that SOMEBODY has great taste, and the wherewithall to be able to ahem..."flaunt it" in everyone else's face.<br /><br />I'm reminded of a book of short stories by Truman Capote. I can't remeber the title of the book just now, and can't seem to find it by Googling it...but anyway, there is this one story called...<br />I believe it was: "Spin Dazzle". It was set in New Orleans, his hometown, I think, and it was so beautiful and poignant..hauntingly beautiful.<br /><br />It is the story of a young Truman, a boy who finds a woman who is a conjurer. He goes to her with a specific request.<br /><br />"Make me a girl".<br /><br />I think that may have a great deal to do with the issue. I think that, deep down, some gay men think..."if I were a girl, this is what I'd wear..." <br /><br />Not being female, but being an outsider, so to speak, seems to give homosexual fashion designers an objectivity that allows them the eye for creativity they have.<br /><br />Further,I don't see the fact that there are gay (successful) fashion designers as some sort of "stereotype". I think it's an objective fact. And, did I mention, I think it's great. It's not a "sweeping generalization" to say that gay men fashion designers are the arbiters of women's fashions. It's the truth.<br /><br />Again, I'm glad to have The Divine Mr. M, that is, IssacM, Michael Kors,,,one of the BEST designers ON THE PLANET!!!, and so on. I think they're wonderful.<br /><br />Oh, and did I mention? They've got fabulous taste.sewsynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-43880752470160039892012-08-07T07:10:06.072-04:002012-08-07T07:10:06.072-04:00Caryn, that comment actually made me giggle -- whi...Caryn, that comment actually made me giggle -- which is rather a sad commentary on the state of things. ;)Peter Lappinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05109154527996679077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-47128513868207647472012-08-07T01:35:05.481-04:002012-08-07T01:35:05.481-04:00I don't think so..... what they would like to ...I don't think so..... what they would like to do is take the masculine and somehow adapt or apply to the feminine form.scorpioninbluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12004830986247178040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-48986457606306444322012-08-07T01:24:03.716-04:002012-08-07T01:24:03.716-04:00Most women appreciate a compliment from a man (whe...Most women appreciate a compliment from a man (whether he's straight or gay) on their appearance much more so than they do another woman. In hairdressing I've heard women say they would never let another women touch their hair, because they're convinced she wouldn't make them as attractive as a man would. Fashion designers today can only suggest, the days of dictating are long over! If he or she wants to stay in business they have to keep their feet on the ground. In spite of what you may see in Vogue or Bazaar the bottom line today is sales and that crosses the line of both genders. I love "Project Runway" because it clearly demonstrates how important being commercial is in any designer's career no matter what their sexual preference is.scorpioninbluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12004830986247178040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-61161450272180719892012-08-07T00:59:47.762-04:002012-08-07T00:59:47.762-04:00Paul Poiret had such an ego that he designed a ski...Paul Poiret had such an ego that he designed a skirt so tight at the hem that they made women hobble...as a matter of fact that's what it was called! Chanel came along with her practicality and put an end to his foolishness. After the end of World War II, Dior did his much heralded "New Look". Practical, comfortable? Not hardly!! He advocated corsets, horsehair padding and bustles....a return to the tight hourglass sillohette and women clamored for it, since they had to do without during the war years. I doubt that Dior would have succeeded with his "New Look" in a time of peace and prosperity. Looking back at his work, it is definitely locked into a specific time-frame and doesn't transcend time. The very idea of it wouldn't be tolerated by today's woman!scorpioninbluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12004830986247178040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-28911840616876745352012-08-06T21:47:53.954-04:002012-08-06T21:47:53.954-04:00Do lesbians like to design menswear? Seriously cu...Do lesbians like to design menswear? Seriously curious about that.Carynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17870436666815513446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-67143588453786755542012-08-06T19:44:32.972-04:002012-08-06T19:44:32.972-04:00At this time, men are still inhabiting a very limi...At this time, men are still inhabiting a very limited stereotype of "masculinity". A few free thinkers break free, but most straight men embrace it and defend their "masculinity" by avoiding any practices that may be seen as "effeminate", like becoming a fashion designer. One day there will be a Men's Movement, when men demand the right to be nurturing, emotional and creative. After that, the proportion of men in creative fields, including fashion design, will mirror the proportion in the population.Maehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01471643987029247042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-55854935004216709352012-08-06T18:28:16.153-04:002012-08-06T18:28:16.153-04:00Coco Chanel designed for figures like her own. Sh...Coco Chanel designed for figures like her own. She was quite proud of the fact that she had the body of a (skinny) fourteen-year-old girl even into old age.Marilisenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-63311021485463012782012-08-06T17:43:52.305-04:002012-08-06T17:43:52.305-04:00In the Victorian era, Charles Frederick Worth pret...In the Victorian era, Charles Frederick Worth pretty much invented the concept of haute couture. He was, by all accounts, straight & married one of his first models, & they had two children. The idea that high fashion is run by gay men is a pretty recent concept, as is the idea that men's fashion is boring -- look to the early 19th century for Beau Brummel (the original dandy) & before that for the 18th century where men wore clothing as elaborate, highly decorated, embroidered, & colorful as women, plus they wore wigs, makeup, & shoes with relatively high heels. And men had been for centuries before.<br /><br />Blame the Victorians for dulling things down.Trystan L. Basshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08397943306522024963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-78212124796024679032012-08-06T17:38:21.420-04:002012-08-06T17:38:21.420-04:00Makes me think of the Glorious Ginger Rodgers quot...Makes me think of the Glorious Ginger Rodgers quote, " I did the same as Fred did, only i did it backwards and in high heels".Itscurrentlytwoamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17786810917426973126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-89393634909799369882012-08-06T16:21:07.820-04:002012-08-06T16:21:07.820-04:00Hmmm. Quite a question. I am thinking about somet...Hmmm. Quite a question. I am thinking about something James Merrill said in his theatrical production Voices from Sandover . . . adapted from his epic poem The Changing Light at Sandover that addresses the predominance of gay people (men and women) in creative fields as having something to do with and urge for "progeny" -- this was how their "parenting" desires/urges/needs were channeled into a different kind of creation. It's an interesting thought. I certainly think that, for whatever reason you choose not to have children, it frees your energy, time, and concerns for other endeavors. True visonaries -- whatever their gender/preferences -- make life exciting and interesting. It's interesting to me that Alexander McQueen's visionary line has been continued with such gorgeous and challenging creativity by a woman (who was his dear friend and collaborator). We see more women in the creative frontline as our socially acceptable (and biological) choices have expanded. Will fewer gay men reach the heights of creative stature because they can more easily choose to be parents now? And will we find more creative straight men choosing women's clothing design since calling something a "gay" field is dopey and passé. Shrug. I'm grateful for everyone who's made clothes fun and exciting and interesting. All the women -- Coco Chanel, Claire McCardell, Donna Karan . . . all the men, Christian Dior, Balenciaga, Armani, Marc Jacobs (who looks great in either black lace and in a skirt). And no one knows better than those who sew how great they all are at what they do!Erzulimojohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01475371609166418042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-73700709582450928172012-08-06T15:23:06.126-04:002012-08-06T15:23:06.126-04:00Maybe gay guys just feel freer to 'buck the sy...Maybe gay guys just feel freer to 'buck the system'. At least I hope they do. Some of our best thinkers also seem to be gay men.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-6883149281132498002012-08-06T15:02:12.114-04:002012-08-06T15:02:12.114-04:00Oh, I don't know about that. I used to shop in...Oh, I don't know about that. I used to shop in a clothing store that was owned by a mother and son, the son being gay. It was the mother whose opinion I never trusted, Michael on the other hand could be trusted to be truthful and he never steered me wrong.Nancy Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02235347323004026695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-5911910834127350362012-08-06T14:48:01.913-04:002012-08-06T14:48:01.913-04:00LOL I do like your take on this topic.LOL I do like your take on this topic.Nancy Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02235347323004026695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-4459262969240545672012-08-06T12:14:01.560-04:002012-08-06T12:14:01.560-04:00I wonder if part of the reason is that a creative ...I wonder if part of the reason is that a creative field like fashion has historically been more open to different lifestyles than traditional workplaces. Ergo those with non-traditional lifestyles find a home there. Just a thought...Cliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05552253628640209694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-74363948447372119102012-08-06T11:26:18.912-04:002012-08-06T11:26:18.912-04:00Coco Chanel didn't like women with curves, she...Coco Chanel didn't like women with curves, she once criticized Bridget Bardot, saying she had too much derriere and bosom. She liked the flat silhouette on women. You might also ask why female designers follow the men. I personally don't like this skin and bones look!!scorpioninbluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12004830986247178040noreply@blogger.com