tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post780659670413192642..comments2023-10-20T08:27:40.314-04:00Comments on male pattern boldness: Mad Men and the early SixtiesPeter Lappinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05109154527996679077noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-80787509782895915032016-02-05T21:52:22.187-05:002016-02-05T21:52:22.187-05:00Your comments are always welcome, no matter the ti...Your comments are always welcome, no matter the time, Mouse!Peter Lappinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05109154527996679077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-12978428367457370462016-02-05T21:48:18.013-05:002016-02-05T21:48:18.013-05:00Very late to the party here but I've always th...Very late to the party here but I've always thought that we were never supposed to love 'Mad Men' as we love a frothy romantic comedy such as 'Lover Come Back' -- they're cut from far different cloth with very different purposes, made in different eras with different social and economic pressures. Unrelenting depressive drama, form over function or substance, shallow characters and cliches, historical misinformation -- this all occurs in all eras whether satire of current events or as retrospective. I'm not sure I understand the comparisons being made (and I'm not necessarily defending 'Mad Men'; some of the criticism being expressed here is spot-on). Mousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15242005980195348193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-90318276241184141532011-08-17T08:10:25.051-04:002011-08-17T08:10:25.051-04:00I find its popularity a bit strange too. I'm n...I find its popularity a bit strange too. I'm not a big fan of misery drama anyway, but to find it pleasantly nostalgic somehow? Bizarre. The only thing I really hear people talk about are the clothes, the sexism and dull office politics. Thats not enough for me to watch something - not when there are Billy Wilder films still available!francoise_hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12603008941750254162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-30715434694741954022011-08-13T20:56:56.090-04:002011-08-13T20:56:56.090-04:00Peter,...
I wondered what your opinion on the Mad ...Peter,...<br />I wondered what your opinion on the Mad Men series would be. There are certain movies you can watch while you are doing other things (like sewing) and others that are best viewed while sitting focused on the screen and dialogue. Mad Men is in the latter group.<br /><br />I'm a Mad Men fan (for many reasons.) I appreciate the show so much that while waiting during the Season 2 to 3 hiatus, I led a monthly "Mad Men Movie" discussion on the AMC site where each movie mentioned during the series was discussed. One month's discussion was the movie, "The Apartment."...<i>(It was menorable..)</i> I'm not really a movie buff, but these discussions really opened my eyes to what the grown-up world was experiencing during that era. (I was a little older than Sally in real life, so rose-colored glasses were still a part of my life.) I don't think anyone would love the series unless you were there <i>(ie., old enough)</i> or interested enough in the ad world during that period. The clothes alone are not enough to keep you engaged. <br /><br />Yes, it may seem the series is slow....but, life is that way isn't it? Sorry it didn't grab you. You don't have to...we love you for many other reasons! :)greytonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16011928850908138108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-25116115486843224792011-08-12T14:42:28.872-04:002011-08-12T14:42:28.872-04:00OMG Thank you! I forced myself to watch the first ...OMG Thank you! I forced myself to watch the first 6 or 7 episodes because I love the clothes/style & I'd heard that it was such a great critique of sexism/racism/etc. I didn't really get that out of the first few episodes, but I figured the show had to get better... as far as I can tell, it didn't. I had to stop after the 2nd or 3rd disc because I hated it so much (found it as flat, boring, dumbed-down, unimaginative, etc. as you seemed to find it) that I couldn't continue. Maybe it gets better several seasons later, but I don't have that much time to invest in mediocre television! <br /><br />(And I'm too young to have lived through the 60s, but I grew up watching Billy Wilder movies too-- SO MUCH BETTER at making the same points that Mad Men seems to aim for... and funny, too!)meredithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16934496437972189311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-57473257484051304332011-08-11T00:42:58.982-04:002011-08-11T00:42:58.982-04:00Interesting post as always Peter.
I started watch...Interesting post as always Peter.<br /><br />I started watching Mad Mad a while ago and have just started season three. I'm not gonna lie a large part of why I watch it is the clothes. I find it somewhat well written and the female characters are a a lot more interesting than a lot of shows I’ve seen recently. (which is really sad)<br /><br />I think my biggest problem with the show is that while there are trying to portray the sexism, racism, and classism of the time, they are doing it through the eyes of privileged white people(mostly men). There are hardly any people of color on the show and they all have minor roles.<br /><br />The Drapper's have a black maid/nanny but we don't know anything about her expect her name. I think this is a huge mistake and a lot of wasted potential. <br /><br />The show had two gay characters, but one was lost between seasons, and I hear the other gets written off at the end of season three. So we really have no voice of minorities, which I find so disappointing.<br /><br />I'll make sure to check out all those movies you mentioned. <br /><br />Re: Shelly J<br />I'm so glad I am not the only one who feels that way! I always feel like there is something I am missing.Zoehttp://theproblemistheclothes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-8167240209143182252011-08-10T23:34:35.603-04:002011-08-10T23:34:35.603-04:00I agree with a lot of your comments, Peter. I'...I agree with a lot of your comments, Peter. I'm not a MM fan myself.<br />I lived and worked in NYC in the 60's, MM is a shallow romp through that time. <br />Interestingly (to me) my young friends who like the show seem completely focused only on the smoking, finding the other troublesome behaviors simply humorous. <br />Another great film set in the postwar period - The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit starring Gregory Peck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-40740875278590127522011-08-10T22:37:10.086-04:002011-08-10T22:37:10.086-04:00I'm always disappointed by TV. So I don't...I'm always disappointed by TV. So I don't watch it.KayYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09965798068172494708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-91160621713153201382011-08-10T22:32:31.481-04:002011-08-10T22:32:31.481-04:00I'm with you--it's a depressing show. Thou...I'm with you--it's a depressing show. Though the biggest reason I stopped watching was ... I had a dream that Pete Campbell tried to strangle me in the parking lot of Joann Fabrics!Aliciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16805755054179140764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-79197421253799306352011-08-10T19:54:00.923-04:002011-08-10T19:54:00.923-04:00I couldn't get through the first season of the...I couldn't get through the first season of the show. I genuinely felt like I was missing episodes and went back a couple of times to check because the storylines hopped all over the place and sped up and resolved with no clarification whatsoever! It was insufferable.<br /><br />Some friends and I were talking about the show a while ago, and I said, "It feels like a soap opera for men," and he shouted, "That's exactly what it is!"Shelleyjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05223944949880318245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-64887421481303710942011-08-10T19:34:38.173-04:002011-08-10T19:34:38.173-04:00I love love love Mad Men to bits. It's one of ...I love love love Mad Men to bits. It's one of the very few series I watch as it screens on TV (usually I just record stuff to watch at my leisure). I then go and read all about it on the relevant blogs (TLo being the best), and then re-watch it all over again the next morning. I'm finding the hiatus incredibly frustrating. <br /><br />And yet I get where you come from. The series came highly praised when it first screened on UK TV but I found I had all the same reservations as you do at first. But I persevered and by the end of Season 1, I was totally hooked. Maybe I'm a cold-hearted cynic, but I'm not at all shocked or depressed by the attitudes of the characters. On the contrary they all strike me as very real and perfectly judged. I've been re-watching Bewitched in the light of Mad Men, which has put such a different spin on it... Looking forward to reading your post on that!Nathaliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11570545194570856281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-77385918254919518612011-08-10T18:41:49.361-04:002011-08-10T18:41:49.361-04:00The Apartment is a great movie. I don’t watch Mad...The Apartment is a great movie. I don’t watch Mad Men because I was just a kid in the sixties, but I remember that cigarette smoke was everywhere. I used to play with my father’s packs of cigarettes as if they were blocks. Having a drink (or two or three) at lunch was ok. Everything smelled of cigarettes and booze. Every place smelled like a smoky bar.<br /><br />Men making sexual comments to women in public was common. I was just a kid and I was aware of it! I hated it.<br /><br />I remember a party at my father’s place of business that included the families. I remember that some of the guys had pictures on the walls from Playboy and this was considered to be ok. It never occurred to them that maybe the women there would be offended; that maybe at least for “family day” they should hide the photos; that there were kids there that day.<br /><br />I love the clothes, but I would not want to go back in time.Robertanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-34656702533584118432011-08-10T18:39:29.331-04:002011-08-10T18:39:29.331-04:00I'm with you! I started watching Mad Men about...I'm with you! I started watching Mad Men about a year ago, and while I love the hair and the outfits, I haven't managed to watch more than five episodes until today. The relationships really are very depressing. Funny thing, though: I really like watching Eureka and I love the dresses Alison Blake wears!Alessahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16605755512224178329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-11091345687722883072011-08-10T18:20:07.922-04:002011-08-10T18:20:07.922-04:00That's another blog post! ;)That's another blog post! ;)Peter Lappinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05109154527996679077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-87025257605654925222011-08-10T17:50:25.827-04:002011-08-10T17:50:25.827-04:00for another view of Advertising in the 60s and som...for another view of Advertising in the 60s and some cool 60s fashions, what about Bewitched?Jeneratorshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11726106696583524202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-48816502990729761612011-08-10T17:36:28.487-04:002011-08-10T17:36:28.487-04:00For a more British view of the 60's try "...For a more British view of the 60's try "Made in Dagenham" - true story of gutsy working class women fighting for equal pay with Biba fashions and humour.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-10361161746586266972011-08-10T17:23:45.689-04:002011-08-10T17:23:45.689-04:00I watched Coco Before Chanel a few months ago and ...I watched Coco Before Chanel a few months ago and was absolutely enchanted by it... In fact I think I need to add it to my dvd collection. ;)<br /><br />Mad Men... I was intrigued the first two seasons, but once it started to seem to repeat the depressing slant towards human relationships, I kind of lost interest. Sure, it's period eye candy, but the fact that none of the characters seem to be remotely happy bothers me. I also hated the fact that they seem to blithely skip over important historic events that touched just about every American at the time. I have it in my Netflix queue right now, but can't bring myself to watch it--I'd rather watch something a bit more lighthearted and from the period, I guess! (My life has enough dark periods without having to watch other peoples!)Caseyhttp://elegantmusings.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-10048337263915864432011-08-10T17:02:05.670-04:002011-08-10T17:02:05.670-04:00I gave Mad Men my faint praise yesterday. It'...I gave Mad Men my faint praise yesterday. It's validating to hear so many others feel the same. I love to watch Doris Day and Rock Hudson do their schtick, oh, and Jack Lemmon melts my heart. But in support of the Mad Men craze, I think that many of us not in the size 0 or 2 category might find something hopeful in Mad Men's resurrection of clothes constructed for women with curvy bodies. And Peter, you are right about the evolution deficit in our political representatives, literally, figuratively, and infuriatingly.Erzulimojohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01475371609166418042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-55601283920732532652011-08-10T16:46:30.291-04:002011-08-10T16:46:30.291-04:00I have never watched Mad Men. I don't watch m...I have never watched Mad Men. I don't watch much TV.<br /><br />I liked The Apartment, haven't seen lover come back, but I did see Teacher's Pet with Clark Gable. I think that was set in the 60's and he pretends to <br />be a journalist student, and Doris Day is a teacher.<br />I think he wants to show that her famous father's ariticles were nothing more than sensless dribble.<br />Something like that anyway. Probably got it all wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-60498240438496256162011-08-10T16:43:19.285-04:002011-08-10T16:43:19.285-04:00I gave up on MM after 2 seasons - I was hoping to ...I gave up on MM after 2 seasons - I was hoping to see more plot and character development for closet gay Salvatore Romano - but it was not on the agenda.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-76579236188986857662011-08-10T15:56:34.739-04:002011-08-10T15:56:34.739-04:00it took me a while to begin to watch MadMen. I jus...it took me a while to begin to watch MadMen. I just finished watching Season 4 Episode 4 (Tomorrowland, et al) all I can say as a Black woman, not much has changed. I do enjoy the clothing. I've seen the Apartment and Lover Come Back (I've seen pretty much all of DD's & RH's movies). I would be foolish to think MM, the Apartment, et al. would resonate with me. Peter, try to watch MM if for nothing but the Extras for a bit of 60's history. They got some of the info about Medgar Evers (Episode 5), right!Auset's Stitched Treasureshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924962703801889913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-70023882596615051022011-08-10T15:46:26.098-04:002011-08-10T15:46:26.098-04:00I have stayed away from Mad Men because I know it ...I have stayed away from Mad Men because I know it would upset me. I went to college on the East Coast, at a very sub-Ivy, wealthy legacy, caters to the prep school crowd university. I hobnobbed with people who were JUST like the characters in Mad Men (this is in the early 90s):<br /><br />Soulless conformists? Check.<br />Reckless sleeping around to prove your macho cred? Check.<br />Rampant sexism and racism? Check.<br />Large amounts of anorexia, rape, alcoholism, and really good fashion? Also check.<br /><br />College was the worst four years of my life. Why would I want to relive them?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-62634489545284998752011-08-10T15:32:33.676-04:002011-08-10T15:32:33.676-04:00Clio, you make an excellent point.
I would only a...Clio, you make an excellent point.<br /><br />I would only add that these are the conventions of romantic narratives, and they are still largely in place -- unless the film, say, is ABOUT a woman's professional ambition, in which case she often pays a personal price (esp. years ago, in a film like "Mildred Pierce"), or, more common today, gets the man too (Think "Working Girl" with Melanie Griffith).<br /><br />I think our society is still very invested in the classic Cinderella rescue fantasy. If it didn't speak to audiences it wouldn't have lasted as long as it has.<br /><br />In The Apartment, Fran Kubelick DOES stand up for herself and find self-respect, not simply another man. And C.C. Baxter (Jack Lemmon) finds her as much as she finds him -- she's his rescuer as much as he is hers, imo.Peter Lappinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05109154527996679077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-25378325198952298312011-08-10T14:28:55.961-04:002011-08-10T14:28:55.961-04:00I haven't tried watching Mad Men. But I also d...I haven't tried watching Mad Men. But I also didn't really like The Apartment - although it's been a long time since I watched it and I may judge it differently now. But I just can't stand that back then and even to this day in Hollywood the happy solution for a woman is almost invariably finding another man, while the happy solution for the man is to find self respect/stand up for himself - ie: he finds inner strength, she finds a new boyfriend. I know that's an oversimplification, but it plays out again and again, even in films that were supposed to be enlightened for their day. (Wow, I guess I wore my feminist panties today.)Cliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05552253628640209694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-49694515751045526992011-08-10T14:28:08.730-04:002011-08-10T14:28:08.730-04:00I not a fan of mad men but watched the show a few ...I not a fan of mad men but watched the show a few times mainly up see the clothing. Before going to see Promises Promises on Broadway last year (Shawn Hayes) I rented The Apartment becauses Promises Promises was based on this movie. Based on? I was disappointed in Promises because it was similar to The Apartment...I always enjoy seeing Shirley Maclaine...a great actress. In fact she made a movie about Coco, have you seen it? I do agree with you about French films, they are full of emotions and in depth character development, I rent quite a few French films from Netflix...Williamhttp://2sewdreams.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com