tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post7642734914180315178..comments2023-10-20T08:27:40.314-04:00Comments on male pattern boldness: Things I Don't Get, Vol. 11 -- Sexy Teen Fashion HysteriaPeter Lappinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05109154527996679077noreply@blogger.comBlogger75125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-68921282729643556892013-04-29T01:06:40.986-04:002013-04-29T01:06:40.986-04:00I was a preteen/teen in the 80's, when all the...I was a preteen/teen in the 80's, when all the girls wore XL t-shirts so you had no idea what kind of body was underneath. It was great for someone who was uncomfortable with growing breasts, like I was. My Mom horrified me one time, trying to get me past the XL shirt stage by saying, "If you've got it, flaunt it." I nearly died, but she was a teen in the late 50's, and all her dresses and tops were fairly fitted, although her skirts were longer.<br /><br />The times I wore sexy things were pretty much only at Girl Scout camp, where we all tried to have the tiniest bikinis available at the time (omg, they make them so much smaller now!). Short shorts and tank tops were perfect for the Texas heat. I never worried about showing anything when I was surrounded by girls. It was only the boys at my school who made me feel ashamed of my body. (We wore school uniforms, and I still wore the thickest, biggest white button-downs I could find.)<br /><br />My sister 3 years younger pulled an Audrey Horne every day at school. As soon as she was dropped off, she'd put on makeup at her locker, roll up her skirt waistband to make the skirt shorter, and sometimes even change shoes.<br /><br />Funny how individual sexiness can be, even during the same style era.Devonhttp://crankydevon.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-33713444275883327012013-04-14T14:57:05.350-04:002013-04-14T14:57:05.350-04:00I am a mother of a 5yr old girl, with whom I recen...I am a mother of a 5yr old girl, with whom I recently had a conversation about why she was not a sexy lady(heard in a song on the radio we were singing too)but beautiful or pretty or cute or any other but not sexy because sexy is for adults. I know I have more of this issue to cover as she gets older but I am hopeful that comunication will help me help her navigate the 'what you choose to wear will be judged by others no matter what your original message'. Jennihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02805695100481532789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-59264110364023827952013-04-13T14:37:01.265-04:002013-04-13T14:37:01.265-04:00Good, nuanced comment. I just saw an animated vid...Good, nuanced comment. I just saw an animated video on street harassment. It was posted on Feministing or Feminist Philosophers. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-21178157086958850462013-04-13T14:33:06.934-04:002013-04-13T14:33:06.934-04:00Sexual health ed is important, but so are lessons ...Sexual health ed is important, but so are lessons in self-respect. When I was growing up, 14-year-old girls weren't being pressured to give blow jobs. <br /><br />The underwear you posted is vulgar and could easily be misconstrued as a come-on. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-68257914117964299822013-04-12T14:06:31.131-04:002013-04-12T14:06:31.131-04:00There is considerable documentation of research wi...There is considerable documentation of research within the drug/alcohol prevention world on marketing to children and pre-teens. One of the points that really stuck with me is that nearly every child has chosen their brand of beer by (I think it was 8 years old) and the research has proven that they stay with that brand throughout their life even though they do not consume it until a decade later. (Budweiser frogs anyone? Notice how quickly that campaign disappeared.) Consumers become irate when these types of tactics are used against them but there are millions of dollars at stake in identifying how to get and keep loyal brand customers. Budweiser will swear to you that they never marketed to children. So will Victoria's Secret. But the truth is they need to get their brand locked in as early as possible before the field gets crowded with competitors. It's a thin line to walk. And it's a very effective strategy.Kitty Frank, Realtorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15035368882833228494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-18519081662710054082013-04-12T12:03:43.834-04:002013-04-12T12:03:43.834-04:00In my experience, some teens may not even realize ...In my experience, some teens may not even realize the message they send with their clothes. My "uniform" at 14 was cropped spaghetti strap tank tops and short-shorts. They were comfortable for riding my bike in and I thought I looked cute. I couldn't figure out why all the boys in school kept asking me out and then dumping me a week later. Because I wasn't following up on the message my clothes sent, that's why. The following year I suddenly started wearing very baggy clothes, again just out of my own personal preference. I loved going around in my dad's T-shirts and the widest-leg jeans I could find. The attention came to a grinding halt. Imagine that. <br /><br />And just a few weeks ago, with me now at the age of 30, I was standing outside a bookstore waiting for a date to meet me, in a cute red wrap dress showing off cleavage. I was approached by a man who took my outfit as an invitation to stand far too close to me, comment on my breasts, and talk about what sort of sexual acts he'd like to do to me. I kept a calm head and told him firmly that I was not interested. When my 6'5" 250 lb. date showed up a few minutes later, the guy beat a hasty retreat. I was very unsettled over the whole incident, mostly because it was another reminder that there are always going to be disgusting people in the world who think an outfit that you merely perceive as cute is a neon sign flashing "F*** ME."<br /><br />It's unfair, but that's how it is. I would never EVER EVER suggest that ANY woman deserves to be assaulted or to even be catcalled because of what she wears, but we do a disservice to all of us when we act oblivious that what we wear garners a certain kind of attention. Should we go around in burqas instead? No, but we should be aware of this fact and teach it to our daughters. And while we're at it, we could teach our sons that we shouldn't judge books by their covers or girls by the clothes they wear. We can't change the views of society as a whole, but we can at least attempt to create decent human beings.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-89381514561987797942013-04-12T12:02:20.695-04:002013-04-12T12:02:20.695-04:00I feel that I should leave a comment here since I&...I feel that I should leave a comment here since I'm still a teenager lol. I feel lucky that my mom understood the way I wanted to dress a little more provocative. She was this age once too so when she saw me start dressing inappropriately she just stated that "I would grow out of it eventually." She told me storys of how her mom never understood her desire to wear mini dresses and gogo boots. So she wanted to be more accepting of something that was inevitable with an immodest and shapely daughter lol. <br /><br />Of course she never let me take things too far though and my older sisters criticize everything I wear. All in all I'm not any worse of than I would be if I was forced to wear jeans and a t-shirt constantly, I would know I tried that too. People still stare... ._. Hamsterswithcakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10940126285080874425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-60962003925613298832013-04-12T00:36:59.750-04:002013-04-12T00:36:59.750-04:00Oh, so much yes! LOL. I still have the little red ...Oh, so much yes! LOL. I still have the little red dress in my closet that provoked my (liberal feminist) mother into telling me I looked like a hooker when I was eighteen. . I think my main goal for YEARS (starting at about fourteen) fashion-wise was to look as skanky as possible. Tight, low cut, high cut, cutouts, bare midriff? hellz yes. It wasn't until my later twenties, maybe, that the idea of aiming for anything else really occurred to me. Which may have more to do with having a bit more tummy flab than I used to than anything else. Tanit-Isishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15824217102632813598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-6697941186786430072013-04-11T23:12:25.225-04:002013-04-11T23:12:25.225-04:00Here here jenHere here jenpumpenerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06423930154033156984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-39819343364917519412013-04-11T22:38:56.461-04:002013-04-11T22:38:56.461-04:00The essential problem is that males are STILL defi...The essential problem is that males are STILL defining female sexuality. We have corporate America selling limited choices of what is sexy. sewpdxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-84386081080381798282013-04-11T16:34:28.269-04:002013-04-11T16:34:28.269-04:00A lot of comments...
Interestingly enough, in ano...A lot of comments...<br /><br />Interestingly enough, in another place on the interwebz that I frequent, this topic (or more specifically, modesty) was raised and 100% consensus couldn't be found there either. In the interest of full disclosure, the place in question could be considered rather conservative as it is religiously based.<br /><br />I don't have teens, but I have two pre-teens, 9 & almost-11. I have never had a problem finding modest clothing for them to wear. We shop at Target and Justice almost exclusively these days and I have yet to find clothing for them that would not pass the county's dress code for school. In fact, I'm at a loss as to where to look for inappropriate clothing because all of the major stores in our area trend towards respectable coverage. Even bras aren't overly padded at Target or Justice. Just a little padding to keep "the girls" from being a thermometer.<br /><br />Are there things that I consider inappropriate available? Yes. But for every one of those, there are three things that aren't inappropriate. I feel like I'm totally missing out.<br /><br />I have a few simple rules regarding clothing:<br /><br />1. Skirts and shorts may not be shorter than one's fingertips when standing. This is a school district rule and I find it easier to go along with this guideline since it's easy to see/enforce. And if my girls don't like it, I tell them to take it up with the school board. Win/win.<br /><br />2. Nothing with writing on your buttocks. No one needs to be staring at your nether parts. Your face is UP HERE.<br /><br />3. Is it appropriate for the venue/weather/activity? They have a lot of lattitude because down here in Florida it's warm pretty much 11.75 months of the year and we tend to be a lot more casual all year round. <br /><br />I'm not as much a stickler for writing/designs on the front of a shirt as long as they don't say stupid things. Anyone remember the "I'm too cute to do math" tshirts? Yeah. Oh hail no. We're big into STEM here, so that shirt was a non-starter.<br /><br />As long as they stay within the guidelines above, my kids can pretty much wear whatever. I don't think I've had to say "Oh no you don't!" about anything yet and my girls are REALLY opinionated. Especially the younger one, whom we call The Fashionista.<br /><br />We have had discussions about how to match color/design/texture/styles, and that's about as far as it goes. My girls love to watch Project Runway, so I think approaching it from a *fashion* sense rather than a *rules* or "you better not try to be sexy" sense works better for us.<br /><br />Of course, not having any teens yet, I'm a total expert, right? ;-) I trust my girls to make good choices because they've *always* had the opportunity to make choices. My middle child has been choosing her own clothes since she could walk (less than a year old). I believe that giving (controlled) choices early teaches the ability to make choices later.Nina Suluhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08616884472638151080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-48420628159249863482013-04-11T16:11:33.325-04:002013-04-11T16:11:33.325-04:00Michelle-- What we wear may not be who we are. BUT...Michelle-- What we wear may not be who we are. BUT if you dress a certain way you have no right to get self righteous or indignant if people view you a certain way because of it. The way you dress is a choice. It's not like being born into a certain race. If you choose a particular style of dress, you must accept whatever connotations or social stigmas that go along with it. That's just the way it is. Nikki H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02407520517580416273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-27904769895890236472013-04-11T15:44:23.385-04:002013-04-11T15:44:23.385-04:00I dressed pretty frumpy up until I was 18 or 19. I...I dressed pretty frumpy up until I was 18 or 19. I never even wore makeup. My mom was very strict but she really had nothing to worry about with me because I had no interest. I also had body image issues and low self esteem. I do wish that I had dressed in a more flattering way and developed my own sense of style earlier in life. Young girls who dress in cute, fashionable and quirky ways exude self respect. Young girls who have sexual messages stamped on their butts, obsess over every inch of their bodies, and expose as much of their skin as humanly possible are exhibiting a different kind of low self esteem that I believe is much more self destructive. I don't think parents should micro manage what their children wear but they should be aware of the message their children send out to others by the way they dress. Labeling someone based on what they wear may be unfair, but it is a reality in essentially every human society, and you are very naive if you believe otherwise. I also believe that it is extremely hypocritical when people say "I want to express myself by the way I dress" and then get offended when people make assumptions about them based off their clothes! Isn't the reason you put that on this morning because you wanted to portray yourself in a certain light? If you don't want people to think you're a "slut" don't wear bootie shorts with "come and get it" on the seat. This principle applies to children and adults alike.Nikki H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02407520517580416273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-29093298572224679742013-04-11T15:42:29.045-04:002013-04-11T15:42:29.045-04:00My children are not to that age yet, so luckily I ...My children are not to that age yet, so luckily I am not as worried about it currently.<br />However, I do think that it is kind of scary that they have that kind of stuff for all ages of girls (really down to babies). It is sometimes difficult to buy things that I think are appropriate for my 4 and 8 year olds. (And yes they have bedazzled bras and things for girls who are younger than 8). Girls are just trying to grow up too quick. Brandyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08784610736357161420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-3267315990599383652013-04-11T15:40:03.530-04:002013-04-11T15:40:03.530-04:00Yes, very well stated, Jen. I agree with many of t...Yes, very well stated, Jen. I agree with many of the people pointing out the difference between marketing this sort of thing to teenagers (ie high schoolers) and to pre or barely pubescent grade school children. Once I had a job and was paying for my own clothing to a certain extent (i started working in a neighborhood store at 14) my access to/desire to wear slightly more adult garments increased. What really bothers me is the role that parents play in encouraging overly sexualized presentations of self in children even younger than that, and the frequent (although obviously not inevitable) results that this sort of self image has on these girls for the rest of their lives. Eviehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03019171892695902270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-46094953697514409522013-04-11T14:06:40.566-04:002013-04-11T14:06:40.566-04:00I would just like to point out that we are NOT all...I would just like to point out that we are NOT all "sexual beings from a pretty young age". I am asexual, along with over 1% of the human population.<br />I'm also a teenage girl, (18), and I find all this stuff both annoying and confusing.<br /><br />I have always dressed extremely modestly. Partially because I want to avoid sunburns. But also because I feel that wearing revealing clothing in today's society will send messages that I don't want to send, and get me labelled as things that I'm not and don't want to be labelled as.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-62187121193202112292013-04-11T13:17:55.193-04:002013-04-11T13:17:55.193-04:00Michelle in the US, the numbers of people in slave...Michelle in the US, the numbers of people in slavery are largely under-reported and unknown, but there are estimated 100,000 – 300,000 children alone that are sex trafficking victims in the US. <br />ultrahedonist the problem is not when people confuse sex work with slavery, the problem is when people confused a sexual slave with a sex worker. There is a huge difference between using you sex and being forced to use your sex for working. The problem between sex work and sex slavery is when clients don't know or understand the difference, for them is the same. <br /><br />Now according to Merrian Webster you have 2 definitions of SEXY:<br />1:sexually suggestive or stimulating : erotic<br />2:generally attractive or interesting : appealing <br /><br />Now in this times we live, when sex is everywhere and sells everything, this, this is a problem, because when a girl wears sexy clothes, she will be associated to the definition number 1 "sexually suggestive or stimulating" not to the definition number 2. Let's said she can do it, is she mature enough to deal with the unwanted attention? Does she realize the impression this cause in other people? Do adults understand she is still a child? Do they care she is a child? Do they see a girl or an object of desire? Do you understand that this objectification is transferred to all women of all ages, we are sexual objects or we are undesired object? Please don’t misunderstand me, I know we are human, and we have a sexual side! But it’s just one side of our complex being! Just one. But when that one single side becomes the whole side of us, the only one side and all that we have to give, and the other can see it in the same way too, that is wrong and not good at all.<br />Madkrakatoahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07197551788337610940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-32893488019409705902013-04-11T13:17:36.095-04:002013-04-11T13:17:36.095-04:00I agree wholeheartedly with you. When I was young...I agree wholeheartedly with you. When I was younger tight jeans were sexy but nowadays the envelope is definitely being pushed too much with super short minis and spaghetti strap midriff tops. I have a daughter who doesnt dress as provacative as I've seen but when she does want to put on something questionable I have a discussion with her about who is she trying to get attention from and how she feels about herself because ultimately I want to know she feels beautiful and valued without having to be scantily clad. Personally I don't understand why anyone would suggest buying a teenager underwear with those messages what are we saying to them but at the same time the underwear does not make the teen do anything that they aren't or can't say themselves.<br /><br />Last thing I'd like to say is when my daughter was 12 or 13 and I started buying her bra's I was apalled that I could not find one bra that wasn't extremely padded and the attention on breasts in American culture is just plain old ridiculous.DDhttp://ddsworldofsewing.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-60975489610932912692013-04-11T12:35:36.094-04:002013-04-11T12:35:36.094-04:00I never felt safe to dress provocatively. I was a...I never felt safe to dress provocatively. I was always aware that it attracted attention I neither desired nor knew how to handle. lwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08731797783816953087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-75605707578230922162013-04-11T11:41:13.954-04:002013-04-11T11:41:13.954-04:00I think you are a little naive if you really belie...I think you are a little naive if you really believe that VS is not marketing to teenagers. I have a nineteen yo daughter as well as three teenage neices and from observing them and all their friends I can assure you that VS markets to them. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-55609122973432061032013-04-11T11:34:19.855-04:002013-04-11T11:34:19.855-04:00I have a nineteen year old daughter who is a fresh...I have a nineteen year old daughter who is a freshman in college. She has the same body type as your daughter. My biggest rule was nothing printed on the bottom of pants or shorts. We talked a lot about what was flattering on her. She developed early so many times something would fit but was not age appropriate. The one area I was more lenient on was showing a little cleavage. If I wanted to cover her completely she would have been in turtlenecks or matronly dresses. This was especially true for prom or other type dresses. Our compromise was if the dress was lower cut, we taped all the edges down securely so nothing would shift. This kept her a bit more modest. <br />The battle I'm losing now is leggings are not pants. Apparently all the girls wear these with oversized tees on campus. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-40032335099567971012013-04-11T11:19:54.833-04:002013-04-11T11:19:54.833-04:00I could comment with a novel's worth of info h...I could comment with a novel's worth of info here... but I won't. The bigger issue, in my opinion, is that for girls, your body is changing, and you are often appreciating those changes and the attention it brings. I have a tween-ager, and think it is very important to let her know that she may have a desire to be seen as sexy, and she will have sexual desires before it is appropriate to act on them. That is not "wrong" or "bad", it is just part of growing up. That is why we educate our daughters about what is appropriate to wear, to do, what the risks are, etc... We've got to consider it from all sides, and that's how the rules get made in our house.mimi jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09046101113822427313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-20458487279510391912013-04-11T10:55:40.649-04:002013-04-11T10:55:40.649-04:00Wonderful Post, Peter.
As the mother of a five-y...Wonderful Post, Peter. <br /><br />As the mother of a five-year-old boy I am acutely aware of my responsibility to raise him respecting himself and others above all. Hoping that when he is grown, that no matter how a girl is dressed he will act in an appropriate way towards her. Because from experience - if a boy likes a girl - it really doesn't matter if she's wearing a mini-skirt or a paper bag! <br /><br />cindihttp://www.thefabricconcierge.etsy.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-51592192430507837882013-04-11T10:48:43.735-04:002013-04-11T10:48:43.735-04:00I agree that young women want to flaunt it, I know...I agree that young women want to flaunt it, I know I certainly did. And, it's not new, Peter, you are right. I think a lot of this is hard-wired. However, it is worrisome for two reasons that I see. You can say that exposed skin is no excuse for sexual aggression and it isn't, but it does encourage it in males who have poor impulse control and character. If he has to pick which one he will go for, it won't be the one who is covered up! Also, it does reinforce objectifying women at a young developmental age. It's not new, I did it, and it will continue. I was lucky that nothing happened to me because of it. By the way, these underwear are just silly, as I suspect most teenagers know. You are right, we should just be having honest discussions with our children about sexuality and precautions rather than getting upset about underwear signage! Americans can be so hypocritical!becksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02147945810663254093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1991166428290808171.post-2521750467720016212013-04-11T10:35:08.731-04:002013-04-11T10:35:08.731-04:00I'm pretty sure I would have rolled my eyes at...I'm pretty sure I would have rolled my eyes at this underwear when I was a teen just as much as I'm rolling them now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xnZ6g14WwY<br />motorharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15729621083839677176noreply@blogger.com